Curse

Thom · May 16, 2006, 09:26 PM // 21:26

It seems that Anet is going to run a spear profession. Since they asked us for ideas for assassins, I am preempting this request and asking the creative minds on the forum for ideas regarding a spear class. The spear and other polearms are the age old weapon of the foot soldier. It deserves its due.

My idea which I feel is fairly radical is to have 3 attributes devoted to the spear similar to how rangers have 3 devoted loosely to the bow. My other objective is to allow your caster staff to be sufficient equipment for the defensive spear lines.

Primary (Footman's defense): While a spear or staff is equipped you block 4% of attacks for each attribute point.

Defensive techniques: Various defensive stances requiring a staff or spear and parry/counterattack skills. Some energy and some adren.

Offensive techniques: Spear only attacks both adren and energy. Spears should be similar to bows in damage (and hopefully variety).

Playing style-- tank+melee range mesmer/ranger. Low damage hammer warrior with a bit more utility. Reactive skills such as interrupts should be the emphasis.

BahamutKaiser · May 16, 2006, 10:09 PM // 22:09

Personally, I think a Samurai would be the best class for spear wielding, they are the coolest and most profound spear users, as well as good with a katana.

I'm not going to worry about what the spear class is, since they probably choose it already, but I can come up with some spear type features and hope they are considered.

Spears are functional for some unique reasons, the obvious one is to reach and attack your enemy from a safe distance, another one is to keep your enemy at that safe distance, impeading his advance. I think Spears should be able to attack at a slightly further range then melee weapons, and that spear skills should include skills which immobilize incoming enemies, keeping them away from you or slowing their advance.

I think a key feature that should come with all new melee classes is skills which help you defend your allies, because pooring on damage is rather simple, using team skills to keep your party alive is advanced. For a spearman I think a new kind of status should be made, a pin or immobilize skill. Interrupt stops skill use, and knockdown stops your skill use and immobilizes you, a simple pin/immobilize skill would only stop the enemies movement for a brief time, since it doesn't interrupt or stop skill use like knockdown, it could either cost less, or last longer than most knockdown effects. These pins skills and stances would serve as a way to push away melee attackers, expecially warriors, wile increasing the counter value of assassins teleport, since they can bypass your barriers.

With a stance that allows the spearman to immobilize the enemies movement for 1 second every time they strike them, or skills that immobilize the enemy for 2 or 3 seconds, they would be very useful at slowing the advance and retreat of enemies.

Another thing I would like to see is the ability to equipt a shield even though you have a 2 handed spear in your hands, this could be made possible by the primary or a secondary attribute for this class, This allows them to deflect even more attacks on themselves and use shields designed for their class to add armor as well.

P.S. I would like to read up on these rumors for the next chapter, if there are any official statements about or media outside of this or that player say, I would like a link, to be better informed about the future.

Goats17 · May 16, 2006, 10:16 PM // 22:16

The Ritarii!!! Or whatever it's called.

actionjack · May 16, 2006, 10:20 PM // 22:20

The thing is, I feel there is a differnce between a spear and pole arm. Giving the possible theme, one might assume that such class will be more of a Tribalistic-Amazon-ish Spearman that do more of trusting and throwing with the spear. Personally, I want more of a Arc Swining Pole Arm user, but that don't seem fit well with the new theme.

Anyway.. that is just personal opinion, and maybe I am just thinking too much. Maybe as a challenge, I will also try to make a concept class about it as well.... will see...

(oh.. and yeah.. there was a Spear Throwing Mob you could face before... in the first Beta)

Sagius Truthbarron · May 16, 2006, 10:26 PM // 22:26

I don't know if I like the idea of being able to use a stance along with your 68% inherent chance to block attacks. Kind of makes stance tanking with a warrior extremely useless. Unless, of course, they have 50 AL

How about for each point you have a .5% chance of knocking a foe down and a 1% chance to interrupt them?

I wouldn't say the spear profession is "likely". Perhaps its a Shaman that uses spear attacks. Why would they introduce 2 Meele classes? Like factions, it would probably be 1 cast and 1 meele.

Aki Soyokaze · May 16, 2006, 10:36 PM // 22:36

I think the idea of spears is long overdue and would be a nice addition if it were implimented.

I was just wondering what the 'footman' would have? Would it be like a warrior where you'd either get to choose a one handed or a two handed weapon eg. a sword and an axe or a hammer? So would you be able to use a one handed spear and a sheild, which would give it more of a roman soldier feel (Spear). Or would it be more of a two handed weapon such as a halberd that will do heavy damage (Halberd). Because I think that that would be an interesting implimentation to include both aspects and allow for the individual player to choose which one he/she would prefer. I also think that it would vary the play styles of the footman and make him/her an interesting class to play.

Perhaps with the implimentation of something like 'Footman's Defense' there would be skills such as % to block attacks paired with the number of allies or other footmen that are in your area, nearby, etc. So with two footmen in the same area you have 8% rather than 4% if it were just one footmen. And since there would be added defensive bonuses for that; such as percentages of magical resistance and slower adrenaline gains by enemies in the area.

Aera · May 16, 2006, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom

Primary (Footman's defense): While a spear or staff is equipped you block 4% of attacks for each attribute point.

That one is way overpowered...imagine 16 Footman's Defense 64% chance of blocking without having to do anything...mix that with the assasin and it's solo'ing the guildlord...

Lampshade · May 16, 2006, 11:04 PM // 23:04

I like the idea of havning 1 handed and 2 handed staves, for more dmg or more defence. Certain stances would require certain arms.

Thom · May 16, 2006, 11:46 PM // 23:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aera

That one is way overpowered...imagine 16 Footman's Defense 64% chance of blocking without having to do anything...mix that with the assasin and it's solo'ing the guildlord...

The idea was in fact to have a defensive happy primary attribute allowing a class to tank without warrior like armor. The conditional on the primary was "while a spear or staff is equipped" which rules out most of your damage abuses. I feel if you want to dump 16 attribute points into your primary, you should be fairly amazing (consider energy costs with 16 expertise). Obviously the numbers are flexible (+3% is still 36% at 12 and 48% at 16), but the idea is not overpowered.

An interruption primary attribute is an interesting idea. Set it at something like 1.5% for a good balance IMO (18% at 12, 24% at 16).

There is clearly a difference between a polearm, a javalin, a thrusting spear and a pike. Real mechanics are very different, but as is the case with swords and axes, game mechanics can be similar. The important intersection is the relative defensive nature -- ability to keep distance and the ability to parry melee attacks. Also a relatively slow attack speed is fairly typical of a thrusting weapon. You could easily create one and two handed varieties with different attack speeds and damage rates (but the same skills) and you could introduce throwing spears and a related attribute line.

As far as likelihood goes, maybe it is just wishful thinking. Hearing that they displayed some art involving a polearm gives me some hope. There really is enough material to create a melee character with a drastically different playing style and battlefield role: namely a utility melee character who trades quick damage and moblility for sustainable shutdown and holding ability. The flavor is also one of a kind: where assassins introduced one weapon, this would be a class with a larger array of weapons and the ablity to incorperate existing shields and staffs (I like the idea of having a one handed and two handed version).

MrScaRy · May 17, 2006, 01:09 AM // 01:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom

Primary (Footman's defense): While a spear or staff is equipped you block 4% of attacks for each attribute point.

This is way overpowered. This is a passive guardian (the monk skill) at 12 attributes. At 48% block rate is about blocking half the attacks aimed at you. Assassins would have a riot since they'll be missing their combos. The spearman would also be the next farming profession if they had a warrior as secondary.

Arkantos · May 17, 2006, 02:05 AM // 02:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom

Primary (Footman's defense): While a spear or staff is equipped you block 4% of attacks for each attribute point.

At 16 footmans defence you will block 64%. I have a feeling thats WAY overpowered. Maybe make it more like Critical Strikes, say 5% at 3, 10% at 8, 15% at 13 or something similar.

actionjack · May 17, 2006, 02:15 AM // 02:15

The Dragoon that I wrote sometime before support Spear and Polearm weapons. The idea of keeping to two type seperate was taken from someone's idea (I forgot who). Overally, I like it there, as it is differnt from Warrior weapon. You can read more there if you want to....

Now in a more tribalistic/Amazon theme, I would make a spearman class similar to a Ranger/War, and with such attributes:

Spear/Javalin Mastery: Allow you to better use the Spear/Javalin weapons, which is one-hand throwing weapon (that have shorter range than Bow, with a bit longer reload time, more more damage power) Skills there will include armor pentration, interuption, pindown, and damages. Its main differnces is that many of its skills are power by Adr.

War Staff Mastery?: Using the weapon War Staff, or Bladed Staff (a staff with two blade or ball at its two ends) Most skills that would use med amount of energy (~10e) and do some AoE attack, Defensive blocks, and mulit hits.

Huntsman Mastery: Include Blow(?) type of skills, which let you use blow gun type of dart to apply differnt conditions at range. Also allow you place a "Marker" on target foe, which make your damage more powerful when use against that target.

Terra Mastery: Skills that allow you to reshape the battle ground more to your liking. A type of Area Control skills (somewhat similar to the spirts) Also allow you to use differnt type of ground for better advantages.

Well, thats the basic ideas. Not very detail. May will add more to it later in time... Also cann't think of a good Primary to go with it....hmmmm

Sagius Truthbarron · May 17, 2006, 02:53 AM // 02:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sagius Truthbarron

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bloody Death

At 16 footmans defence you will block 64%. I have a feeling thats WAY overpowered. Maybe make it more like Critical Strikes, say 5% at 3, 10% at 8, 15% at 13 or something similar.

Why would you want another critical strikes class?

Oops. Didn't read that right.. :X

Arkantos · May 17, 2006, 03:02 AM // 03:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sagius Truthbarron

Why would you want another critical strikes class?

Critical Strikes is when you make a critical hit +1 energy at 3, +2 at 8, +3 at 13. For this I am talking about +5% to BLOCK at 3, +10% to BLOCK at 8, +15% to BLOCK at 13.

Winterclaw · May 17, 2006, 04:19 AM // 04:19

I'd much rather see spears as a new part of the warrior class instead of a profession onto itself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BahamutKaiser

Personally, I think a Samurai would be the best class for spear wielding, they are the coolest and most profound spear users, as well as good with a katana.

If they go with Samurai, then they need to give them swords, spears, and bows since those were the traditional weapons for samurai. Maybe samurai katanas can be two handed.

Huntmaster · May 17, 2006, 04:35 AM // 04:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom

Primary (Footman's defense): While a spear or staff is equipped you block 4% of attacks for each attribute point.

4x16=64% chance to block attacks, always.

A bit overpowered, no?

As for the actual class, i think a 'Lancer' would be cool..

I was just checking http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spear for some ideas.. They have a pretty big list of spear types. ;D

BahamutKaiser · May 18, 2006, 01:31 AM // 01:31

Yeah, Samurai were renound for their bow skills as well, but as that is clearly rangers weapon, and samurai can secondary for bow with probably more attack power, I don't see the need to let them us a bow.

With a Samurai they could introduce a new kind of sword type which is 2 handed, even through the katana is most likely smaller then many of the 1 handed swords a warrior uses, the sword art they use is different, and the way they swing their sword is where the damage of a katana comes from, not the wieght or length.

Katana would be a must for a samurai class, but having another attack class that only has a different kind of sword as it's only weapon would be bland, and Samurai were known as great spear wielders, so spears would be a great alternate for them. In my suggestion I also brang up the idea for Dual wielding, but in reality, dual wielding is overrated, expecially for a samurai, and a good counter/survival attribute would probably be better.

Aurek · May 18, 2006, 02:43 AM // 02:43

If they were making a spearman class they could really do some interesting things with it. Imagine skills that have different benifts depending on the number of other spearmen within a certan radius. Or link up with other spearman skills. To sort of represent the spearwall tactics of many cultures.

NatalieD · May 18, 2006, 07:14 AM // 07:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjack

The thing is, I feel there is a differnce between a spear and pole arm... Personally, I want more of a Arc Swining Pole Arm user, but that don't seem fit well with the new theme.

That is definitely more personal opinion (and RPG game convention) than anything relevant to how weapons are actually used.

Ti Ni Xian · May 18, 2006, 08:02 AM // 08:02

i already see my little monkey running around with this huge spear